A short circuit absorbs all the power, hence no output or spark. that old problem, the deeply-buried condenser Turn the armature in its proper direction of rotation until the contact-breaker points are just starting to open. Another problem, due to constant hot, cold, expansion, contraction, vibration or mechanical impact, is breakage of the fine winding wire. Learn how and when to remove this template message, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ignition_magneto&oldid=1150712364, Short description is different from Wikidata, Articles with unsourced statements from January 2023, Articles needing additional references from January 2023, All articles needing additional references, Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License 3.0, This page was last edited on 19 April 2023, at 18:38. With the plugs in the engine connect one plug outside like you have been testing it to confirm no spark, If there is spark present I would open the gap of an old spark plug to 3/16" and see if the spark will jump that gap. With the contact-breaker assembly still removed from the magneto, and with a multimeter set to measure resistance, check that with the points closed there is a short circuit between them (as close to 0 as your multimeter goes). The ratio of turns in the secondary winding to the number of turns in the primary winding, is called the turns ratio. If your magneto is loosing spark after a short amount of time running, or is hard to start it is most likely a condenser failure. With an open circuit the device has no CAPACITY to absorb the reaction voltage (back EMF) from the coil, therefore this energy is dissipated across the timing contact which quickly burns away. After you get your spark strong enough, then worry about cap and rotor. With a multimeter, check the resistance between the brass of the slip ring and the end of the armature shaft (armature earth). . Clean and grease the moving-point pivot. Do similar tests with the HT lead(s) and the plug-cap(s). Reassemble and check operation. As the field collapses rapidly there is a large voltage induced (as described by Faraday's Law) across the primary coil. Come join the discussion about performance, restorations, modifications, classifieds, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more! These are prone to deterioration and the cause of many ignition faults. Check that the felt pad in the end of the screw holding together the two blocks of the points assembly is present and good, and soak it in oil. All Please get in contact if you know anything about aerograph compressors especially if you have technical drawings.Last, but not least, if you want to receive notifications when more videos in this series are uploaded please subscribe to the channel. He got it and thought the ring the points rides in came out and just needed pushed in. only for magnetos, but also classic motorcycle 2. Rotate the armature until the contact-breaker points are open. Nearly all magnetos have a gasket between the pick-up and the magneto body (a) to prevent water entry and (b) to set the correct clearance between the pick-up holder and the slip ring. On the very first BSA I ever owned, I sufferred the same problem. Likes: 260. scotland. If it has any unusual marks, try to work out what caused them and whether anything should/could be done about them. quality are also available, of the correct For example: Check as best you can that the brush is actually making contact with the track on which it runs. You should not feel any tingles in your hand. If higher than that, investigate. 85 0 obj<>stream Thanks mmcdonald, all good info. Lucas Ga4 Magneto Austin 7, Morris, Riley And Many Others Service Exchan. From the basic to the complex - some [5] The hub of the magneto rotates while the drive shaft is held stationary, and the spring tension builds up. Main-body Earth Brushes and Bearing Insulators: Some magnetos have an earth brush between the contact-breaker back-plate and the contact breaker housing. Lucasworkshopinstructions-magnetosLucasworkshopinstructions-otherstuffLucaspartslistsLucasATDspecificationsBTHinstructions&partslistsM-LBookletsMagntoFrancedocumentationRobertBoschDocumentationAmericanBoschworkshopinstructionsPatentsBooksandlearndpapers, Redesigned contact breaker for ring cam models, SR1, SR2 & SR4 magnetos (workshop The points surfaces should be very slightly convex, so dont worry about getting them perfectly flat. i'm an asshole, you probably shouldn't listen to me. If you need more information, or wish to order by post or pay over the phone, please ring: 01273 913181. to suit the needs of a customer. Check the state of the heel of the moving-point assembly. %%EOF books. Could be bad parts if spark just gets a lot weaker but if spark totally goes away when cap and rotor are installed, be sure the when you install them it does not short out the primary, give the rotor a closer ground to jump to or hold the points open, etc. If there are any, replace the pick-up. pouvons vous aider soit en franais, soit en anglais, votre convenance. If the brass is black, it indicates that the brush(es) are too soft and/or years of neglect. unfortunately the repair did not work as the Coil did not work so it had to be sent to rewinding. Your mag likely has a bad condensor. When we undertake the renovation of these magnetos, we examine the following:-. With other models, it may be inaccessible while the magneto is in situ, for example underneath. instructions). 0000006861 00000 n Don't flame, hate, spam. Check for any dirty marks on the paper. With a multimeter, check the resistance between the tip of the pick-up brush and the terminal in the plug cap. Always good to learn how to check lucas parts, one of the weaker parts of a triumph motor.. Classic Cycles inc. 2199 N. Batavia Suite J. If it is several thousand ohms, it indicates that the HT lead is resistive and/or the plug cap is fitted with a suppressor resistor. Now that the slip ring has dried off, replace the pick-up(s). Oil on the inside of the pick-up is usually indicative of a failure of the magnetos oil seal, in which case the magneto will need a more complete overhaul. This is really common on original units as the Lucas condensers were made from wax paper and foil. In the case of a main-body earth brush, try moistening a cotton bud with petrol, and poke it through the hole for the earth brush to clean the track while rotating the armature, but IMPORTANTLY before doing that temporarily remove or disable the contact breaker to reduce the risk of electric shock and fire. What else could possibly be grounding this? Our patented EasyCap is a simple In the right direction (clockwise, looking at the points) and a fairly healthy looking spark should jump the gap from one ht at a time, lead to casing. A good Wico X series mag will jump at least 3/8" air gap. However, for magnetos without a safety gap, if the armature is spun with nothing, or with a large gap, connected to the pick-up, it may cause a breakdown of the insulation around the HT winding or of the slip ring. This could be because: the brush isnt projecting far enough to touch the slip ring, so check that as best you can. If there is a main-body earth brush and it is accessible, remove it and check that the spring is good, that the brush is free to move in the holder and that the brush is not unduly worn in length or diameter. Make a note of the reading; youll need to refer to it later. long practical experience of working on magnetos and Put a smear of grease on the surface of the cam that engages its housing. If you are using an auto-advance timing gear, stuff a length of fuel line in the mech to hold it at full . degrade with age. 0000002602 00000 n heavier the better. If there is a quickly-detachable connection between the HT lead and pick-up, undo it and check the condition of the connection. A small number of electrons is ever present and over years or decades this flow carves out an ever widening pathway through the insulation. Voltage across the primary coil results in a proportional voltage being induced across the secondary winding of the coil. If your magneto is loosing spark after a short amount of time running, or is hard to start it is most likely a condenser failure. The contact points which are mounted onto the end of the armature shaft, used to time the breaking of the primary winding current, will become pitted and worn, especially so if the capacitor is faulty. rebuilding magnetos and of how to extract an Rotate the armature and check that the contact- breaker spring never touches the cam. These faults do not necessarily occur instantaneously, they may develop over time leading to a gradual deterioration of the spark output. Do not skimp on quality with pick-up brushes. have a small choice of reconditioned With the engine running, place your hand over the pick-up with the same hand also touching the magneto body. Click Here to view Lucas face cam (magdyno) parts manual. However, typical signs of magneto problems are, among others: -- Bike hard to start. LUCAS K1F MAGNETO RUNNING AT 1200 RPM AT THE ARMATURE. The spark is fine on this coil, keep in mind the faster you turn a mag, the better the spark. A short circuit absorbs all the power, hence no output or spark. Nice work. The readings for the two plug caps should now be swapped around. Deutsch After a series of checks, I sent it back to the rebuilder. sequences illustrating the importance of In either case, the magneto needs a more complete overhaul. downloadable drawings for those of you who 0000002567 00000 n Pick-up brushes of the highest Can you rig up real cables? Our The engine needed some attention, which it has now received, but I had to take the magneto off. This is really common on original units as the Lucas condensers were made from wax paper and foil. We shall resume operations as soon as we possibly can. If you are having trouble with your ignition system we recommend that you first change your spark plugs and HT leads. One of the plug caps should give a reading which is substantially the same as the reading you obtained in the internal HT continuity section. "Colonel fair is fair: if I nail Hotlips and punch Hawkeye can I go home too?". Dansk We are unfortunately not able to offer Lucasworkshopinstructions-otherstuff. JRC Engineering Inc. 3110 Indian Ave Unit 1E, Perris, CA, 92571. This disables the magneto to reduce the risk of electric shock and fire. I wonder if hand-cranking might get it going. Links to some interesting Dansk If not free to move, ease it. demand to 'perfectly functional' or 'as-new' At any one time, we reckon to They were used in the village forge in Cullworth (northaptonshire). Open the points and blow between them to dislodge any remnants of paper. the brass is in the wrong place, as a result of a magneto with a segment-type slip-ring having an incorrect cam fitted or having the wrong direction of slip-ring fitted. Under construction, so far showing video Twirl the armature. i have had 3 done here by ed strain that included rebuild with remagnatized body for a little more than $200.00. Thanks again. Rotate the armature and check that, when the points are fully open, the moving point assembly is not fouling anything. A really nice one will jump 1/2"or better. 2,330 views Oct 18, 2020 16 Dislike Share Air Fuel Mixologist 1.31K subscribers I purchased this Lister D petrol (gasoline). and overhauls. It shouldnt be very many ohms, and certainly less than 30 ohms. The resistance between the two sides of the circuit board (with your fingers well clear) should climb to in excess of 2 G (2000 M). A fair amount maintenance and troubleshooting of a magneto can be done with the magneto in situ and without any special tools or equipment other than a multimeter. As the size of the combustion chamber determines the time to burn the fuel charge, dual ignition was especially important for the large-bore aircraft engines around World War II where it was necessary to combust the entire fuel mixture in a shorter time than a single plug could provide, in order to build peak cylinder pressure at the rpm desired. Lucas workshop instructions - magnetos Library Robert Bosch Documentation American Bosch workshop instructions Patents Books and learnd papers Workshop instructions - Lucas magnetos N1, KN1, K1F, K2F, KVF MO1L, MN2L Redesigned contact breaker for ring cam models SR magnetos (general info.) You should not let a Wico X go out the door if it will not jump more than 1/4" because something is wrong. It uses a magneto and a transformer to make pulses of high voltage for the spark plugs.The older term "high-tension" means "high-voltage".Used on many cars in the early 20th century, ignition magnetos were largely replaced by induction coil . To all you guys with Lucas magnetos with problems, get ready to see it fully functional for about $23 shipped, along with a little work in your garage. A capacitor is placed across the points which absorbs the energy stored in the leakage inductance of the primary coil, and slows the rise time of the primary winding voltage to allow the points to open fully. Measure the resistance with the two probes of your multi-meter shorted together. Values vary considerably depending on the make and model of magneto and who wound it. [2] An ignition magneto also includes an electrical transformer,[2] which converts the electricity to a higher voltage (with the trade-off being a corresponding reduction in the output current).[2]. Parts lists and workshop instructions, not performance. wish to make the required puller tool here. You need to confirm that the condenser has failed AND that replacing it will solve the problem. We will check all the parts of the magneto for faults and will provide a firm quotation for a repair along with a description of the magneto repair required. Points and contacts cleaned, and wires tested for continuity. JVC 4VR-5436X 4 Channel Stereo Receiver Service Manual Original. If there is a groove where a lubricating felt should be, but is missing, consider making and fitting a replacement. Gift Article. [3] The capacitor's function is similar to that of a snubber as found in a flyback converter. %PDF-1.5 % Lucas vertical magneto in good condition and sparking. If you do not obtain readings substantially the same as the reading you obtained in the internal HT continuity section, and if everything else you previously checked is still good, it indicates that the pick-up brush(es) is/are not making good electrical contact with the brass of the slip ring. I did notice a very small spark between the contact breaker points. commonly found on classic motorcycles. 096792012013 - 2020 | Website design by The Net Effect of Sheffield, Website design by The Net Effect of Sheffield. I purchased this Lister D petrol (gasoline) engine that came on a trolley with an Aerograph air compressor. Armoto LtdRegistered & Trading Address:Unit 26, M1 Commerce Park, Markham Lane, Duckmanton, Chesterfield S44 5HSTelephone: 01246 826667 | sales@armoto.co.ukRegistered in England Company No. If the magneto is fitted with, or about to be fitted with, a Brightspark EasyCap, you can perform some basic checks on the EasyCap. - there's a lot of stuff in our frequently NEWS FLASH - March 2020 As you will understand, with the Covid-19 pandemic shutting down most normal business, we are not able to despatch orders for the time being. Posts: 34. Then check that the contact-breaker assembly is not wobbly on the end of the shaft. An ignition magneto (also called a high-tension magneto) is an older type of ignition system used in spark-ignition engines (such as petrol engines). trailer Some have both types of earth brush. Svensk Powered by Invision Community. The impulse coupling uses a spring, a hub cam with flyweights, and a shell. There is no wire hooked up to the cap. If it is significantly higher, there is a bad connection or break in the low-tension circuit, in which case the magneto will need a more complete overhaul. Another cause of atom disorientation is mechanical shock, hammer blows or dropping the unit onto a hard surface, etc. If it does not jump 3/16" it probably will not fire a cylinder under compression. With Lucas devices, if it fouls the contact-breaker spring, the contact-breaker assembly will need to be removed and the effective length of the spring increased as necessary. The gap will widen as the wire ends melt further apart and soon the adjacent turns will be affected so the coil will eventually fail. We also have kits for more unusual magnetos, such as the BTH, ML, Magnetos France, Morel, Lucas wader, Lucas KVF, etc., and for cars. [5], The first person to develop the idea of a high-tension magneto was Andr Boudeville,[citation needed] but his design omitted a condenser (capacitor). Contact Us - DO NOT EMAIL CAR QUESTIONS. magnetos. 0000005952 00000 n We also sell our Brightspark range of If you have a Megger or similar insulation tester, set it to test at 500V. You must log in or register to reply here. Used on many cars in the early 20th century, ignition magnetos were largely replaced by induction coil ignition systems. I also want to wire up the battery better, as I'm just using jumper cables. Norsk Also, with the points open, check that there is an open circuit between them; if fitted with a Brightspark EasyCap, it will take a little while for the resistance reading to climb off the scale. If the magnet is full strength and the spark at the points looks right then I would still say you have a coil problem with some shorted turns or something. Brightspark Magnetos is now able to offer a remagnetising service, using our specially-developed remagnetising and measuring equipment to help you restore your magneto to tip-top condition. I highly doubt it is excessive unless someone has been grinding the rotor or the cap. Undo the contact-breaker centre-screw and remove the contact-breaker assembly. <]>> Hi group, It is summer in Denmark, nice but my Lucas KF2 Magneto do not like high temperatures. In the late 1890s, English engineer Frederick Richard Simms and German engineer Robert Bosch developed the first practical high-tension magneto. If you can see the slip-ring through the pick-up hole in the main housing, check that the brass ring or segment of the slip-ring is brass coloured (albeit possibly a bit dirty or tarnished), but not completely black. Ignition - Check Spark strength, Spark timing and . If you can't get even 1/4", I would be worried it would not work under the stress of being in the combustion chamber.