I deepened the hole to 0.480. You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers. JavaScript is disabled. The mag on the left is the metal 10 round mag, the two to the right are Pmags. First and foremost, I will readily acknowledge that PMAGs are a great magazine. Like CPT stated, it's supposed to raise it some and technically it can only go so far before the BCR bottoms out. I'd delete it if I could. The metal Mag that came with my Stag worked fine however. What's stopping your bolt catch travel, when you have that plunger and spring in there? I have a DPMS pattern LR-308 under construction that has a failure to feed and fails to catch the bolt on an empty magazine. Take off your upper receiver, throw in that empty mag. 4: Clearance to bolt catch is adequate when bolt is fully retracted, Fig. Its Alex C. with TFBTV. The main concern is the failure to feed. check out the. I think I may just shoot it a few mags and see what happens.. Once bolt was locked to the rear or closed, it would engage the catch and seat properly on the "bad" mag. Because of the cost difference, weight, compatibility issues, and not dropping free in many platforms, Ill stick with what I know works. Gonna remove the anodizing, but making omelets requires the breaking of eggs; so. I actually just noticed this issue on my Colt 6920 with Magpul M2 PMAGS. Mick 1 month later. If so, it would cause both symptoms. Here's a photo showing the mags. Seen here is a few examples of when a PMAG has to be manually removed: a problem that isn't present most of the time with plain old aluminum magazines. The ones I used were my friends and I checked the bolt catch before I shot. Press the AR MAGLOCK magazine release button. This will allow for easy removal of the magazine . . A: Some states require the compliance solution be made permanent. Also check out this great, descriptive video as the Gen3 7.62x51 PMag followers have a slightly different contour which can catch the feed lips, and not rise high enough to engage the bolt catch properly on DPMS Gen 2 style bolt catch levers. Your previous content has been restored. Is it the length of the plunger? Clear editor. If you experience this issue, make sure your lower is within spec, and your bolt catch is installed correctly and not worn down. Note the different rear opening. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. The problem is interference between the bottom edge of the rear wall of the mag well and a ridge running horizontally across the PMag spine. Why not just ditch the PMags? View attachment 25288. 11: Top of lower receiver to top of magazine catch hole = 0.692. Not trying to be a dick, but can you summarize in one sentence what the rifle is NOT doing? Could use some advice, being this is a problem on MANY ARs, not just the M&P's. This will severly damage your bolt group over time. This is one of my pistols. After depletion of your 10 round magazine, you must hit the bolt catch release to bring the bolt home. Open the receivers to the maximum limit of the pin capabilities. :??? For a while you only had so long to make the edit and then never again. Copyright 1996-2023 AR15.COM LLC. The BC looks the same so this is a non issue. All Rights Reserved. New firearms are designed around common Colt-pattern mags, and Magpul has to keep accommodating new designs with generational changes, or new offerings altogether, like they did with the EMAG. i have thermolds, and usgi mags and the rest of them work perfectly.. Scan this QR code to download the app now. It was initially 0.323 deep. For more information, please see our You'll need to clay the upper, just like you'd do if you were checking an engine for piston-to-valve clearance. Personally I wouldn't shoot it until you've got this issue corrected. Snipers Hide is a community of Snipers of all kinds, focusing on long range shooting, accuracy, and ballistics. This solution will meet some states permanence requirements. Try manually locking it back a dozen or so times then checking for any wear streaks on the top of the magazine feed lips. This is. I started construction with the lower at 80%. Depth of the hole? PMAG Problems Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated I dont have another LR-308 with which to compare my measurements so I dont know which dimensions are problematic. Thanks shooterrex. Yes I had to trim the left side rear notch square before the BC laid perfectly flat. I do need to know the correct distance of the top of the mag catch to the top of the lower as in figure 10 by using a depth gauge. Talyn said: Pmag VS Hexmag. Im almost through with my build, however I have noticed that my Seekins enhanced Bolt Catch in my Anderson lower is not locking back on PMags like it does on my aluminum and steel magazines. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Please refer to our installation videos and the instructions on your packaging. The tension on the bolt catch by the BCG helps keep the bolt catch firmly engaged over the rear of the follower of the Pmag. P-Mag Follower and Bolt Catch Engagement *Issue Resolved! Some rifles are just finicky. To clear, get the bolt to move back by removing the floor plate of the magazine, remove the spring and follower followed by the rounds in the magazine and the 2nd round should drop out. Some people used a 9mm bolt catch, others shaved out the bolt catch area on the mag itself. TNVC/NGI Giveaway: 15 winners with over $7000 worth of prizes!! Also, we'll be happy to correct or delete anything if you point it out to us in the meantime. His problem is that the front tab of the bolt catch is not engaging on the follower of the PMAG, so the bolt won't hold open on the last round. Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited. I too have seen issues with PMag followers. So far so good. 10: Top of lower receiver to top of magazine release = 0.696, Fig. The mags cause the bolt catch to rise ever so slightly and drag on the bolt lugs, which results in significant damage over time. Your enemies, with nodding of their plumes, fan you into despair! Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. I can manually push the catch tab in to raise the catch higher. That said, there is a reason that there are generations of these magazines. It's a precaution against folks who like to cause trouble immediately after joining up. The P-mags always functioned. Magpul needs to tweak their mold a bit before they make the claims they do. The plunger and compressed spring are 0.490. From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm. The bolt catch rides up but not on the black polymer part of the mag, but the follower. Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more. The upper, lower, and jig are from Daytona Tactical d.b.a. 7: Bolt catch fully extended, plunger removed = 0.443, Fig. I deepened the hole to 0.480. I'll try and grab my camera. We are all guilty of doing this, in one way or another. If the solution to the feed problem involves a modification to the upper or lower, I'll test the bolt catch and take another measurement as shown in figure 5. AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types. If you could post a pic of that comparison, it would be helpful. I have both just to keep ammo separated. Similar occurences? Depending on the rear takedown pin you are using either pull the pin (Tacticool pin) or actuate the pin to disengage the receivers (KingPin & Hyperswitch). Also, since the follower rides too high the pmags I used made a dent in the follower from the bolt. I liken this to a person who lives in an urban area with an office job, assuming that nobody needs anything more than a Toyota Camry, while overlooking the fact that some people need things such as towing capacity, off-road capability, or more seats for a larger family. Really appreciate your thorough pictures provided, that's an excellent way to provide data on your issues. 8: Bolt Carrier to upper receiver = 0.283. . Pasted as rich text. It may not display this or other websites correctly. Privacy Policy. Also if you rest your gun on the mag when you shoot (by the way don't do this) it will shove most mags including FN factory ones. While the weight difference may not seem like much to a civilian shooter who packs up his shiny, clean competition rifle into his Pelican case and totes it to and from the range in the family truckster, you hear about things like guys cutting toothbrushes in half to save weight in the military. With the mag catch removed, a mag can be inserted so far into the mag well that the follower moves upward beyond the point where it can lift the bolt catch. As weird as this will sound, you need to measure the length of your recoil buffer, and the internal depth of your buffer tube and post it here in addition to the excellent info already provided. Powered by Invision Community, Problems with failure to feed AND failure to catch bolt. Next up is damage to the SCAR. Not a back-breaking amount, mind you, but not insignificant. Thanks for the reply. I wish I could edit the original post to correct this. The plunger and compressed spring are 0.490. TSiWRX. My solution is to raise the bottom rear edge of the mag well by approximately 1mm to 1.5mm. IMHO, I would get a USGI / high / known quality bolt catch and try one of those. The mag doesn't need to come up so far as to cause this condition but the bolt catch tooth begins at the center of the follower then teeters towardthe edge until it drops off. Its best to identify these two common issues with your rifle, before attempting to diagnose problems with your magazines. I recently bought 3 for my acr and when comparing it to the other mags i have for it, it seems the internal part does not come up high enough to lift the bolt catch. Also the follower rides the bolt catch up A LOT. But with firearms, there really is seldom a one size fits all option for, well, anything. By The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. What the problem is: The lip on the un-fixed P-mag pushes the mag release/Bolt catch bar up just enough to catch the bolt group, but not enough to stop it. Think it could be magazine springs? Lastly, not only are PMAGs more expensive than the alternative, but also heavier. These two pics right here, and the height difference. After installation of the ARMagLock the button is. I have a substantial cache of PMAGs, I already performed the PMAG mod by cutting the back of the mag so the bolt catch wont activate. We have heard reports these malfunctions often happened with Wolf, Tula, and Brown Bear ammo. The bolt can still be removed by grinding but will no longer be usable. Hope this helps. It's a whole lot of details. I'd like to get measurements with lowers that did not start as an 80% because there have been reports of80% lowers having the same problem as mine. Does your caliper also have a depth gauge that can get the internal depth to the mag catch as in figure 10? You cannot paste images directly. I had that issue with a couple Lancer mags, ended up replacing that bolt catch when it broke with a Sig 716 bolt catch and now the one Lancer mag I saved that had the issue works in that rifle. *, MISC Training Course Announcements & AAR's, Former Vickers Shooting Method Regional Instructors, Pacific Northwest Training and Networking, All Other Longgun Parts, Accessories, & Magazines (EE), Handgun Parts, Accessories & Magazines (EE), If this is your first visit, be sure to The witness make could be from the locking lugs on the bolt, mine don't have it so I can't say for sure. I could not find it for a few days so I checked it. I don't know if this is an indication of another problem being that the bolt catch is too far left. The bolt catch problem can be solved by drilling the plunger hole deeper but I'd first like to solve the feed problem. I inspected my mags after I received my order and that's when I saw the bolt catch was up and went wtf face palm*. I'm pretty sure it's in the 80% Section. Maybe it's raising it too much, but a locked bolt is a locked bolt. If the solution to the feed problem involves a modification to the upper or lower, Ill test the bolt catch and take another measurement as shown in figure 5. I read your post twice, I still don't see the malfunction. Checking mine now! Note: Firearm will not retain magazines until a replacement magazine catch solution is re-installed. Morality is nothing more than expressions of people's personal taste/ Right? The bolt partially strips a round but doesnt chamber it and just drags over the top of it. Sorry, I see the bolt is hitting the follower i could not see that at first.. Not sure if I understand the problem correctly, but I thought the bolt catch is SUPPOSED to ride up on the follower? The bolt passes over the cartridge instead of stripping it from the magazine. In total, I (and friends) fired about 1,200 rounds in this review, 1,000 PMC .223 55-grain, about 200 reloads (a mix of 77- and 75-grain), and 20 rounds of Tula steel case at the very end. The table shows the measurements of several magazines and the left or right cartridge. Your link has been automatically embedded. Let every feeble rumor shake your hearts! [ARCHIVED THREAD] - Bolt Catch issues w/ Pmags + few questions, https://www.triggershims.com/ar_15_shims.html. Upload or insert images from URL. TNVC/NGI Giveaway: 15 winners with over $7000 worth of prizes!! I picked up a SCAR 16s last week and put 50 rounds through it with no problems at all (using the FN mag). Magpul Pmag Bolt Hold Open Problem - YouTube 0:00 / 7:05 Magpul Pmag Bolt Hold Open Problem It's A Gun Thing 24 subscribers Subscribe 143 16K views 3 years ago Does your bolt on a. I'm looking forward to hearing some comments on this. I recently assembled this Noveske rifle and bought 3. The max difference is 0.030".The real problem is where the mag catch hole is in the lower. Mag still wobbles the same and the error still remains. It's not the bolt catch, itself, obviously. The Fix: 1.) Alex is a Senior Writer for The Firearm Blog and Director of TFBTV. It knows when youre cheating..like Santa. This clearance is partially determined by the use of aLuth-AR .308 rifle buffer tube, spring, and weight [https://www.luth-ar.com/product/buffer-tube-spring-assembly-kit-308/]. This is not the case with PMAGs in many platforms. Ok, so I have searched the hide and my googlefu is actin a fool like my pmags You must log in or register to reply here. Insert the steel DPMS mag and lock the bolt back and look through the ejection port and note how much of the bolt face the bolt catch covers. That should fix it. Display as a link instead, Posted July 20, 2016 in Shooting Accessories, TFBTV by Alex C. with 210 CommentsTags: I'm the guy at the store with 27 coupons, Magpul, pmag, PMAGs, Tightwad. It may not display this or other websites correctly. Again, though, I would like to recognize that PMAGs are a quality product and Magpul is very receptive to user feedback. When someone mentions must-have magazines for the AR platform, many shooters immediately think of Pmag Vs Hexmag. You can post now and register later. /r/ar15 is here for your favorite black gun links, build pics, questions and other tactical or practical information. So, I marked it and I'm gonna keep running it through to see if it happens anymore. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. Pmags have worked fine in the past. The follower I wouldn't think should have witness marks on it though. Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. The mags cause the bolt catch to rise ever . If the solution to the feed problem involves a modification to the upper or lower, Ill test the bolt catch and take another measurement as shown in figure 6 (not figure 5). Suggestions? That might give a more consistent measurement between yours and mine. AR platform is new to me, and I hope I don't upset anyone here because I am a noob when it comes to ARs. Mar 3, 2022. I find it interesting that in the "Bolt Catch Issues" section of the article, they mention that if the gun's bolt-catch fails to operate properly, instead of simply checking other mags, their first-line troubleshooting is to check the critical dimensions . Crap! After depletion of your 10 round magazine, you must hit the bolt catch release to bring the bolt 'home'. They are reliable, well-constructed, and produced by a company that has a great reputation. Excellent work with the pics and details. UPDATE: after tinkering with it, Ive noticed it only happens on 30 round mags. It is tight getting the depth gauge to the lower so the caliper may need to be slightly rotated but not in a direction that will affect the height measurement. But if you're having this problem just take the flat of a knife blade and, holding the blade perpendicular to the magazine body, scrape a little bit of the plastic away until your bolt latch has free travel. I realized you can fix this by filing or dremeling off some material on the rear of the mag body, or by using whatever generation of magazine they implemented to fix this, or you could just arrive at my next point and save four or five dollars more by purchasing a GI mag. Very carefully and pay attention to how the bolt catch actually works, if you did you should figured it out almost immediately. I thought it was a nonissue with the gen 3. The bolt catch on the AR platform is directly in the center of the mag, so the shape of the notch doesn't matter on the AR, but on the SCAR, the bolt catch is offset slightly to the left. How do I make the install permanent for use in states such as. Definitely try another couple magazines, including one from another manufacturer. Switch the Safety selector to 'Safe'. *Must have a registered ARFCOM account to win. I sanded the top rib along the back wall of the mag near the feed and the feed itself and problem seems to have resolved. Sounds like the pmag is riding a little high and rubbing the bottom of the carrier a bit. Problems I have run into in the past include, firstly, that they wont drop free in a lot of firearms. Like you hear military folk say, Ounces equal pounds. And in the case of the PMAG, a full loadout saves the user a bit of weight. They are not as likely to happen with premium ammo yet the chance is still there. Could i just have faulty mags? I didn't include that aspectbecause the bolt easily clears the bolt catch (figure 4) so I didn't want to throw in a red herring andconfuse the issue. Come join the discussion about optics, modifications, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! 1.4k Additionally, unsafe and unintended methods of operation of the FIREARM may also cause non-compliance. It was initially 0.323 deep. Try tightening the mag catch an extra turn. Today I had some last shot hold open issues while using 20 round P-mags. New production Colt-pattern U.S. GI mags are four to five dollars cheaper than generation three PMAGs. This is not the case with PMAGs in many platforms. All it takes is one out of spec cartridge that the extractor fails to grab leaving the cartridge behind in the chamber, going back then forward and pushing a fresh round against the cartridge left behind and you have the dreaded double feed where everything locks up. Before that would be a solution - you need tocheck how much further into the upper receiver that your magazine will go. 10: Top of lower receiver to top of magazine catch = 0.696, Fig. Loctite (red) or epoxy the Allen bolt into the standoff (threaded barrel tube), and lightly drilling the bolt head facets with a 1/8 drill bit until the socket teeth are rounded. 3: Magazine feed lips height = 0.446, Fig. "And here remain with your uncertainty! I ordered 10 mags from brownells after I saw they didn't ride the bolt up. What measurements do you have on your lower? My external measurement as shown in figure 11 is the top of lower receiver to top of magazine catch hole which is 0.692. Seen here is a few examples of when a PMAG has to be manually removed: a problem that isnt present most of the time with plain old aluminum magazines. Measure the depth of the hole, first. It isnt that they are bad (in fact they feed and run very well in certain firearms) but in my years of shooting I have simply found that other products may better suit a myriad of shooters. The plunger hole on this 80% lower was supposed to have already been finished. The edit feature will become available to you with just a few more posts on the forum. Using PMAGs can actually do irreparable damage to an FN SCAR rifle. If someone can answer that, I'd appreciate it. To my knowledge, no PMAGs will work in the FS-2000 to this day without modification. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited. Professional. Hey, everyone. A new one can be sent upon request. Problem: 30 round Pmag follower doesn't catch on the front lip of the bolt catch. None of the 3 15/30 i have worked. For me I had to shave off small pieces of the mag to make the bolt catch itself latch. You are using an out of date browser. Scan this QR code to download the app now. Yours is 0.6640" for a difference of 0.028" which isn't as much as I expected based on drawings which is 0.049". Just checked all of mine, I'm not sure how HC's ended up with a witness mark where it's at. PMAGs are pretty notorious for not wanting to work in various platforms, including guns like the HK-416 and M27-IAR. How is it though that my. Loading magazines at home means more shooting time at the range. Second Media Corp., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. The problem apears to be that the mag follower tab does not protrude out the back of the mag far enough, the follower wants to ride more . We have also seen similar malfunctions in a sandy environment using military spec ammo with a dirty, gummed up weapon. Indeed, if could be too low, and we have a HELL of a thread here on that very issue. I don't and I didn't . honest. I can manually push the bolt catch tab in to raise the catch higher. I dont know what the limit is before you earn the edit privileges. The gun will feed rounds from the PMAGs no problem. I suspect yours will be higher than mine. So, for people who only have AR-15s and only shoot AR-15s, its easy to get tunnel vision and just assume that PMAGs are the greatest, and the end-all, be-all answer for all shooters, while overlooking the needs of other people. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Not up on the 80% stuff myself but we have a thread with lots of different brand bolt catches and the dimensions that may help on that end, please add to it if you have something not listed there. Repeat for the P-mags and note any difference. Special thanks to Ventura Munitions for helping us out with the cost of ammo, and a special thank you to you all for watching. Here's a pic of the wear on the bolt catch caused by this: Here's the OEM mag (left) compared to the PMAG (right). One new winner* is announced every week! Always use the firearm and AR MAGLOCK products as designed, engineered and intended for use. JWardJune 15, 2020 in Building a .308AR. the tip of the bolt catch that is supposed to be actuated by the back end of the magazine follower is missing the follower and end up not catching the bolt once the mag is empty i have a gen 3 pmag without the window and its kind of frustrating. I sent an email toDaytona Tactical support telling that themagazine catch hole is0.049 too low compared to others I've seen drawings of and am awaiting their response. Can anyone offer insight to the cause of or solution to these problems? There were no ammunition-related issues during the review. AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types. UPDATE: After seeing these pictures, I checked my factory mag. Then collapse that spring ON the plunger, to coil bind, and measure the OAL of both (with spring in coil bind). (not my lower, but my exact problem!) #5. Copyright 1996-2023 AR15.COM LLC. The Magpul PMAG is a great, well designed magazine that many people like and use in various rifles around the world, but over the years I have discovered that they are not the best option for me personally. Could the magazine be too low? The problem is pretty simple, the magazine's follower is failing to raise the bolt catch. edit: i just got them. I'm sure someone here can find that thread on the mag catch heights. You are using an out of date browser. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. i have my pmags and i am just noticing a problemtried it out on 3 seperate lowers all of them have the same problem: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v488/derek45/AR/IMGP5612.jpg, the tip of the bolt catch that is supposed to be actuated by the back end of the magazine follower is missing the follower and end up not catching the bolt once the mag is empty. His mags didn't ride the bolt catch up so we tried them out. Paste as plain text instead, Either the hole gets deeper, or a couple coils come off the spring, or the tail on the plunger gets shortened. Of course, this is just my opinion, based on my personal experiences, and your mileage may vary. Seamac, did you have to modify the black polymer on the mag? A forum community dedicated to FN Herstal firearm owners and enthusiasts. Thanks for this HC, I'm going to inspect my Gen 3's to see if mine have the same witness marks. Operation of an AR-15 without the receivers / action fully closed may result in serious injuries or death. I will lock back, but requires a strong pull, instead of the gentle slide fully to the rear with aluminum or steel. JavaScript is disabled. The plunger hole was too shallow but even after deepening it, the bolt catch still isn't pushedup high enough because the magazine follower is too low. Again, kids running with scissors did this to us. Fig. [ARCHIVED THREAD] - Another P-Mag bolt catch issue. They all functioned fine. i have a gen 3 pmag without the window and its kind of frustrating. My fix was with Gen2 pmags. Mine seem to be fine after trimming of course. If that's what the bolt catch is suppossed to look like then my mags are a lil out of spec when inserted into the lower. The cause could be one of the following: Bolt catch assembly is too far away from the back of magazine well Finger on bolt catch is too short Slight slop (looseness) on magazine, or magazine faceplate When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. .661 from top of receiver to top of mag catch inside magwell. What changed? I just checked and my BM lower does the same. Cookie Notice 6: Bolt catch fully extended = 0.359, Fig. We STRONGLY encourage all users to always use the new PMAG magazine or some other 10 round magazine solution with a removable floor plate. *Must have a registered ARFCOM account to win. One new winner* is announced every week! I have about 15 Amend 2 mags, but that's out of 20 because 5 of them wouldn't drop out of the mag well by themselves. His problem is that the front tab of the bolt catch is not engaging on the follower of the PMAG, so the bolt won't hold open on the last round. Founded by Frank Galli in 2000, Snipers Hide has been offering informational videos, podcasts, and other support to its users in one location. I am having no problems with Gen 2 or Gen 3 Pmags in a variety of lowers using mil-spec mag and bolt catches, which are also from a variety of suppliers. If you have something major to change a quick PM to a mod will get it fixed for ya. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. : "Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.". Would anyone be willing to measure and report their heights from the top of the lower to the top of a cartridge case head? It was initially 0.323 deep. I personally dont see why I would spend an extra five bucks for magazines that wont drop free in all my guns, may or may not be compatible with new and upcoming guns, and my next point: wont fit in all my guns. Anyone else having problems with the 15/30. JavaScript is disabled. These same parts are available from other vendors. Using PMAGs can actually do irreparable damage to an FN SCAR rifle. That should tell you what's going on. the bolt catch tooth begins at the center of the follower then teeters towardthe edge until it drops off. Correction to original post: If the solution to the feed problem involves a modification to the upper or lower, Ill test the bolt catch and take another measurement as shown in figure 6 (not figure 5). My Colt LE6920 bolt is not locking back when the last round is fired nor when I insert an empty magpul pmag magazine. Re: Magpul PMag issues. Fig. I thought about a low mag catch (the machining of it) very first, based on your info, but I wanted to know about that mag catch's internal parts first. If your upper and lower receivers are MIL-SPEC the ARMagLock will work.
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