The question of exploitation has come up in a few groups Im in, and whether that really applies to CC when its often used to talk about migrant labor, for example, or human trafficking. Then, the public outcry will drown out the immoral minority. Justin Clardy on Love and Relationships Section 6: Emotions and Art in Public Life 29. My husband owns several small businesses so I KNOW what goes on the higher up you get and the more you have to jump through government hoops. These local groups pay reduced or even no rental fees to churches by emphasizing the ministry aspects of their education work. Classical Conversations #5: Classical Conversations #5: Leaders Threaten to Use Legal Force to Silence a Concerned Parent. There are instances when Christians have made intentional decisions to disobey state laws. Can we reverse this trend? Community is at our core, with families doing life together as they learn. CORPORATE GROSS INCOME: $20,067,500 This writing is my opinion, but I hope some may find it helpful to ponder along with me. They do not. Topp said two months later, CC COO Keith Denton called and recommended Topp license the book exclusively to CC. The local chapter never grew, despite her skill at networking and selling the program. Ive made enough money to cover my kids tuition but thats about it and thats what I expected when I signed up. Having been in CC for 8 years, tutored 2, directed FE 3 going on 4 I think Ive been through the gamut of what CCs structure and business model holds. // Your claims of misrepresentation // There is no quality filter on free. We Have Answers. Products & Services Classical Christian Homeschool. Classical Conversations, Cease and Desist, Legal Threats, No Talk *** NOTE: This is part of a series that began with these earlier posts: Classical Conversations #1: The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly Classical Conversations #2: What Led You to Join a Classical Conversations Homeschool Community? They also can hide misconduct or. If I was the tax guy I would have said . CC is the Bortins family business and they dont want to offer control to a non-profit board. Still it made me sad. Over the years, dozens of former CC contractors have called out CCs alleged exploitative business practices, including on The Spiritual Sounding Board, Kristi Bothurs blog and JJ Veales blog. My theory is this: at some point in the near future, the increasingly outrageous anti-biblical and anti-constitutional incidents occurring in our country will force Christians out of their complacent woodwork and into the spotlight. The curriculum is sound, the methods are excellent, and my children have learned a ton. Everyone in a CC group must use CCs curriculum, and the only way to get key parts of the curriculum is by enrolling in a local CC group. . First is intimidation. Her work at home deviated pretty far from doing just CC. Application Fees (based on average fee) for Foundation Students: 74,000 x $85 = $6,290,000 Dispute: Did God really say? Deny: He didnt really say that. They do encourage that we use their bookstore, though a lot of parents just share or resell their materials to others. Multi-level marketing strategies are not inherently unlawful or unethical. When you homeschool with Classical Conversations, we connect you with a local community of like-minded families who not only learn together, but do life together. But how many times throughout history has man done what was right in his own eyes? Im putting in all these hours away from my family at meetings, and not getting anything out of it, Bothur said in a phone interview. To make unethical use of someone for ones own advantage or profit. Another definition I found added often by underpaying or overworking. $30 Supply Fee (used to pay for supplies, but I have been informed it is income to the director), Challenge: Yet, we tend to excuse it. CC, on the other hand, collects fees and sells its curriculum to all program participants. Because most local CC programs are for-profit businesses, using a churchs tax-exempt building and assets can jeopardize the property tax exemption granted to that church. 2023 Classical Conversations. Two years ago, CC raised the registration fee for F/E from $85 to $145, all of which goes to CC Inc. The local CC chapter at Fremont Presbyterian Church seems to have solved its tax issues by converting into a nonprofit organization. What other curriculum has weekly modeling lessons for us parents? Prorating may not be applicable if the law states an all or nothing presumption. The steady support, motivation to learn perpetually, and sweet fellowship is vital to me personally and to my family. If corporate is making millionsgood for them. Immediately after getting the bill, Brown called Robert Bortins Jr., CEO of CC, which is based in North Carolina. CC continues to encourage its local contractors to ask churches to host local CC groups, but rarely, if ever, does CC fully disclose the risks to either party. // P.S. They would have to completely overhaul their business model.. True, the average director and tutor does not see much for their time, often much less than a minimum wage and it is often requested to view it as a ministry, but it does not change the fact that the tens of thousands of dollars of commerce is taking place on our church. If as a director youre not spending a significant portion of your day praying with other parents on campus than you might want to reevaluate. Classical Conversations fulfills its mission by curating curriculum, providing services and training parents to build flourishing homeschool communities. (Ephesians 6:4). Also, any comments with profanity, name-calling, and/or a nasty tone will be deleted. I was blindsided by the fact that they werent a 501(c)(3) . We do this through a Christ-centered and family-friendly approach to homeschooling that makes everything biblical and hospitable, focused on three simple key areas: Classical, Christian and Community. We have benefitted from seasoned home educators pouring into us as a young family and now find satisfaction sharing our strengths and struggles with others. She said CC representatives accused them of being outside the will of the Lord, which spread and caused even her kids to lose friendships. After a couple of years I put a stop to all that. Presumably the property tax would be pro-rated based on the percentage of income or of usage that was for-profit, or using the amount of rent that the group would have to pay on the open market. In an interview with The Roys Report, Brown said he told Bortins: You came into our facility. I would think not. Thank you for sharing your story, Rob! I have slightly edited it for length, but it may help you understand the amount of $ floating through this company: It has been placed on my heart lately to really examine the income that is being generated in our churches. But you could remove any of them and copy and paste them below a different story and they all appear absolutely identical. To donate, click here. @Erasmuse: The law & what is permitted usage stated therein is what determines the tax liability. What makes CC Inc. different is theyre not just a curriculum seller, said Carol Topp, who has specialized in serving homeschool families and leaders for the past 16 years. The education company also assumes what sounds like pastoral authority when conveying its policies to contractors. Classical Conversations, Inc. (CC) bills itself as a leading faith-based homeschool education company that enables homeschooling parents, upon being contracted as local CC directors, to make extra income while providing an important local ministry. With that said, Im not sure where the accountability is in this company. I couldnt tolerate the corporate leaderships lying, manipulative tactics, and the lack of attention given to the begging and pleas of directors like me who saw problems, tried to bring them up while we were still in CC and committed to our roles, and begged them to consider some solutions we proposed (at the time I felt very alone; I know now that I have been one of MANY). This displays both a total lack of empathy but also for basic justice. Dispute, deny, distort. It is full of accusations from a very small sample size. I see a lot of these here on various stories about various institutions. Classical education focuses on the great books of Western civilization, Latin, and lessons about morality and virtue, and is based on the medieval European curriculum that divided learning into. A total of $87,000,000 is being generated in our churches yearly and is split between the business of CC corporate, the business of the director, and the business of the tutors. The idea that there is a Truth higher than our own, that man is not the final authority was thrown under the bus. Monday - Friday: 8:30 am - 5:00 pm. Bishop Stewart Ruch III of the Anglican, Non-disclosure agreements (NDAs) have been increasingly used to muzzle people within evangelical churches and Christian organizations. Ive got lots to say about the bad but not today. I have worked 2 years as a Foundations and Essentials director and now about to complete my 2nd year as a Challenge director. The breaking point for her was having to attend CC meetings hours away from home, once again to recruit people to the network. Do we really want to see churches used this way and argue it is their right to have businesses generating millions and millions of dollars in their walls and all the missions align? There is also the whole reality of the question of how the org runs apparently there are chapters that are non-profits and those that are not and apparently to mitigate liabilities, chapters *can* and have been at times converted to non-profit chapters to avoid the tax risk why is that not a viable solution? // I found your article to be rank with smear primarily motivated by some kind of ideological stance. But different states have different approaches to this., The CC chapter that met at Calvary Chapel Fremont also incorporated as a nonprofit in 2018. Thinking about it all has led me to believe it is important to take a hard look at the commercial activity and the value of that commerce being done in our churches. The rest came from Carol Topp, a certified public accountant based in Cincinnati, Ohio, who received the data from five other CC directors for a book she wrote. My CC community breathes flavor, energy, and structure into my homeschool. He does so far more perfectly than I ever could. Would you consider making a tax-deductible donation to help our journalists continue to report the truth and restore the church? That is the kind of Org I would want to work with when endeavoring upon the subversive act of christian education in a secular situation that can barely tolerate it. Brown said he suspected CC knew about potential tax issues and thats why the company had this arrangement with ADF. When the number of blatantly blasphemous events (laws, court decisions, and so on) reaches its climax, the content citizenry will become discontent. Are those businesses qualified to have tax-exemptions on their properties? Among them are Bothur. Palmer was expected to sign a tutors contract, which included a confidentiality agreement, a standard process for all who work with the curriculum provider. This suppression of religious freedom is the price of citizenship (says the New Mexico Supreme Court Justice). You've landed on the Classical Conversations member site that is dedicated to supporting our international members. See the complexity? CC doesnt even remotely sound like the type of hill any Christian church should be willing to die on. Encouraging parents to develop the confidence to lead Christs natural classroom: the family. Buckland said that when her family decided to exit the CC network, they also chose to leave their longtime church home. Learn More Classical Christian Community You Have Questions. CC Inc has set up a program with a price point that is within the reach of enough homeschool families that they (CC) can maximize enrollment and, therefore, income (via licensing fees, book sales, and CCC subscriptions). I enjoy learning from those before me in their journey, encouraging those beside me, and sharing with those coming behind. The Classical Conversations marketing team is seeking a creative Graphic Designer that can translate concepts into clear, compelling graphics for print and digital applications to support . Why is it that letting the operatives of a for-profit christian education platform use your space (for free) calls into question the tax-exempt status of your space? Keep in touch with Julie and get updates in your inbox! We learn together and grow together. DIRECTOR income on Foundation students is estimated to be $2,512,500, TOTAL CORPORATE income on Foundations and Essential Students is estimated to be: $9,165,000 I had two older children who were on a solid plan for high school/college prep and would not have flourished in CC. Hence, we can legalize abortion, because right to life, When Elane Photography in Albuquerque refuses to photograph a gay dedication ceremony, thereby exercising their religion, they should be forced to photograph these events in the future or face jail time. They market themselves as a Christian company, said Bothur. Despite these documented cases, CC has denied that churches hosting their local communities have been assessed property taxes. Unfortunately the complex nature of our tax laws doesnt allow for a blanket statement that wouldnt also potentially be harming to CC. We are above board in everything that we do., After reading a transcript of that webinar, Pastor Brown responded: This is blatantly false. Every bit of it and more. What motivates the article is an attempt to report the truth and raise awareness of these issues to all churches and Christian non-profits that desire to operate truly above reproach. I hope these replies are helpful. . I also have no regrets, but my lack of regrets is due to leaving CC after 9 years. However, according to multiple former directors, the FAQ page was added only in October 2019. New CC Connected To know God and to make Him known. After all, pursuing happiness is, The Department of Justice can distribute an internal memo directing employees to verbally acknowledge homosexuality as a valid lifestyle, because silence on the matter will be interpreted as disapproval, We have abandoned our biblical foundations by disputing, denying, distorting, and finally discarding Gods principles. Some of these things are required, some are not. I feel confident teaching my children hard subjects! Classical Conversations National Conference. next time do more diligent research with the trust people gave you and money. Weve never had any facility have to pay any sort of taxes.. A word about tuition parents think it all stays in the community for Directors and tutors, but that is not true for Challenge, where $320 of it goes to CC Inc in licensing fees in addition to the registration fee. We have discarded the Bible, so why not also discard the Constitution? However, they are damaging local churches and risking local Directors plus their middle man administrators with their choice. I believe there are two? The portion of a property used by a for-profit organization at a church will jeopardize the churchs exemption on that portion, whether or not the church allows use of the property with or without a fee, Wing writes. Within a few years, CC affiliates across Arizona multiplied from one to more than 60, each led by a homeschooling parent. I asked: Are you now theologians to tell the church what is and what is not worship? Perhaps our founding documents? Adam and Eve discarded God's words. Classical Conversations is a Christian-oriented curriculum company and homeschool organization here to help you educate with confidence! Churches assume they will get the full exemption, but its dependent on how the property is used, Sacramento County Chief Appraiser Jill Dolce said in a phone interview. Believing it would be promoted to all directors, Topp agreed and delivered the content in early 2018. Serving as a CC director since 2012, Annie Ferguson of Niceville, Florida, said she has made only $2,000 to $3,000 per year. That said, after the spring and summer preparation that comes as tutor or director, my experience with the program is 100% a rewarding albeit challenging experience. Once Adam and Eve were no longer grounded in Gods ideas, what did they have to fall back on? We believe education is best experienced together, and thats why community is the bedrock of our homeschool model. of graduates reported that their teenage faith in Christ was strengthened by attending Classical Conversations. My two CC grads have received an excellent education and are thriving at their chosen colleges academically, spritiually, and socially. She got it. The process of discarding our Constitution is occurring in the same manner that Adam and Eve discarded Gods words. Community is a very valuable part of CC. However, the county assessors office still challenged whether the CC groups use of the church was valid since the county did not consider educational usage as worship.. They get put on SMART plans. $1375 Tuition (split between corporate and director $160 each semester to corporate for a total of $320 to corporate and $1055 to director) , NOTE: this breakdown was provided to me, but as it is not first hand as I am not a 2019 director, there is always possibility for error in this amount) You knew that this would cause me some tax problems . Some did, but the reality is the majority of Directors are already consumed to the Max with child rearing responsibilities and rarely peruse the corporate webpage looking forward information that should have been broadcast widely. . And when North Carolinas Love Wins Ministries is distributing food to the homeless in a public park, they should be forced to cease and desist or face jail time. National Commencement. The Rev. So lets talk about it. Hence, we are now disputing, denying, distorting, and finally discarding our own founding documents. Next year, he will again tutor Challenge IV. Our Christ-centered homeschool curriculum is rooted in the classical model and is in tune with the way children naturally learn. (We) worked with them and got that issue resolved. Do we see LifeWay bookstores in churches? I dont believe this is the environment that you would be okay with, she texted CCs statewide leader. Tuition Paid for Foundation Students: 74,000 x $335 = $24,790,000 apple valley, ca crime rate dumbo rat breeders near berlin. Soon, CC leaders urged her to lead state operations as an AR for Arizona. For the purpose of this clause, "personal information" shall be defined as detailed in the Promotion of Access to Information Act 2 of 2000 (PAIA). How can CC be knowingly misrepresenting truth when they have this on their website, accessible through a one easy google query. Since our inception in 1997, Classical Conversations has used this timeless set of beliefs to guide how we interact with families and support learning in homeschool community. Note: directors buy the product and volunteer to lead. All rights reserved. 125,000 students. The knowledge that my hard work in laboring to direct and tutor is not lining Robert Bortins pocket book is just an icing on the cake. What do we fall back on to guide us through life? Her third year was horrible. Former director Bothur said this incident suggests that CC doesnt want its directors to know the extent of tax liabilities they are taking on. . My kids flourished, recognizing the education they were receiving in a CC community was different than many of their peers. She called me consumed with stress about an audit, recalled Buckland. Veale added that statewide ARs receive a smaller cut of registration fees in addition to revenue from twice-annual practicum events designed to grow the CC network and sell curriculum. ***** Calculation Discussion ***** We believe that you are the best educator for your student, and we make the homeschool journey doable. The final straw for Veale was seeing a woman she had recruited be mistreated by higher-ups. The Roys Report also reached out to ADF to request an interview about their involvement with CC and partner churches, but ADFs media relations contact said the legal group has no comment at this time. This past year (similar to all the years before it) was the best year yet. They were unethical upfront (and) CC has some corners they need to light up, Brown said. That was a fervent prayer. Classical Conversations, Inc. (CC) bills itself as a leading faith-based homeschool education company that enables homeschooling parents, upon being contracted as local CC directors, to make extra income while providing an important local ministry. We must continue teaching Gods principles to our students day and night, when we sit at home and when we walk along the road, when we lie down, and when we get up3. Tom Digby on the Problem of Masculinity 28. Then CC came to my area. Be right up front.. When you homeschool with Classical Conversations, we connect you with a local community of like-minded families who not only learn together, but do life together. I find it shameful and one-sided. Calculations are based on the current numbers, using the new fee structure and are indicative of GROSS profit. They also have spend a lot of time telling churches that hosting CC fulfills the mission of the church, which keeps churches willing to help, and making government seem like the bad guy. According to her, many of those clients have been liable for unpaid state and federal income taxes. Hola, cmo puedo ayudarlo? Or is this just a classic ad hominem attack where you insult one of the people who was interviewed because I dont know. Palmer sent emails to 10 churches in the Austin area on May 18, 2016, stating in part: Some churches are not aware that these CC homeschooling communities are for-profit businesses. We dont want tuition raised. Shes quit Youve quit. Or is it just CC Because I mean how biased would it be to just go after CC groups? That comment referred to the book of James where it asks the question can a faith that does not do what Jesus commands of us really save anyone? We have abandoned our biblical foundations by disputing, denying, distorting, and finally discarding Gods principles. Note from Julie Anne: Here is a personal account that was sent to me. During the early days of our country, the preponderance of America was Christian. My community is my tribe. Did you have a useful thought about the exploitation of CC workers? (The percentage CC received varied due to discounts given families with multiple children enrolled.). Youve landed on the Classical Conversations member site that is dedicated to supporting our international members. When we discarded Gods Word, not only did we eliminate His precepts, but we also abandoned the idea that man answers to a higher authority. Topp remains skeptical that CC will reform business practices: Theyre doing quite well financially, so why would they change?, Similarly, Palmer expressed doubts that CC will change its policies. Supporting licensed homeschooling leaders imitating Christs work of reconciliation by serving families pursuing a classical education. After all, free speech really only applies if it conforms to cultural norms. // A blanket statement about tax liability simply isnt appropriate (for CC) // We do this through a Christ-centered and family-friendly approach to homeschooling that makes everything biblical and hospitable, focused on three simple key areas: Classical, Christian and Community. 69%. . The tax issues and whether to set up as a sole proprietorship or what not, I was left to figure out on my own.. There is no concern expressed that a third party might have been harmed. Submitting first our own bodies, minds, and spirits to the work of Christ as we join the great classical conversations of history. To keep the facility fee down, CC needs cheap locations and for years, churches have been willing to host CC businesses for free, or at least below market value. We equip homeschool parents with the confidence to raise bright, observant students who have a lifelong love of learning. Buckland accuses CC of being deceptive and preying on unsuspecting homeschool moms. However, Palmer never signed a contract, and she still became a paid CC tutor for one year. Christian-based education offered through homeschool communities constitutes worship and supports the religious purpose associated with the use of church property., For reference: We regularly consult with our legal and tax advisors to ensure we are acting with integrity and in compliance. They kept the Challenge registration fee the same, but increased the licensing fee from around 25% of tuition and fees, to the $125 registration fee PLUS $160 per semester flat rate. When you homeschool with Classical Conversations, we connect you with a local community of like-minded families who not only learn together, but do life together. Give a gift of any amount to The Roys Report this month, and you will receive In the House of Friends: Understanding and Healing from Spiritual Abuse in Christian Churches by Kenneth Garrett. The Homeschool Convert 6.03K subscribers 160 We have homeschooled for 20 years. They talked like their campus had many families. This is incredibly biased, and full of a lack of information and is more a scare tactic than anything else. The Roys Report reached out to CCs corporate office for comment and CEO Robert Bortins Jr. granted a brief interview. The community we miss. I am asking you to think through it for yourself, ponder, and pray. Classical Conversations, Max Brand Audiobooks, Lucky Brand Bookmarks, News Magazines, New Yorker . That directing job opened my eyes to the lack of true support within the CC structure. (I pay for CC because I did free co ops for years. A prominent Anglican bishop hasannounced a leave of absenceafter admitting he mishandled allegations of abuse. The CC cost for parents has four parts: tuition, registration, supplies, and facility. What he, The insidious, slippery departure from biblical principle has brought with it an unintended consequence. When we discarded Gods Word, not only did we eliminate His precepts, but we also abandoned the idea that man answers to a higher authority. Bortins Jr. told The Roys Report that CC has about 130 employees. CCs stated mission is to know God and make him known, a motto popularized by evangelical ministries The Navigators and Youth with a Mission. Find A Community View Programs Watch Video Watch Video Im thankful for the support, accountability, and friendship they offer. Reread the section on the cleansing of the temple. The story above includes over a dozen sourced links and nearly as many firsthand sources quoted. It was impossible to guess the data size, so to be conservative and for ease, I used the numbers for the rest of the country. Truth is required to inculcate wisdom, knowledge, and understanding. In the interim, we have also succumbed to the attractive idea that man is the ultimate authority, autonomously knowing good and evil. No one is making CC Directors stay, right? Do you begin to feel uneasiness at that kind of money being generated in our churches? Thats what has churches worried, Topp said. Most years, the majority of SRs in Arizona were expected to double their number of CC communities to receive any bonus, Veale said. Just because a left-wing county government hostile to home schooling sends a church a tax bill doesnt mean the church owes any money. CC did not reply to inquiries about specific issues. This was what I was looking for! At a homeschool convention in 2017, Topp told Bortins about the book. Through multiple contacts in the CC network, Veale later learned Arizona support reps were the poorest paid in the country. Only then, the masters graduate was embarrassed to admit, did she sit down to carefully read and research CC contracts. They have always been up front about encouraging us on getting legal and financial advice elsewhere. How about Hobby Lobby? Dispute: "Did God really say?" Deny: He didn't really say that. Lord, make our CC experience beautiful. Though various states and counties have some differing policies on tax assessment, both a CPA and nonprofit lawyer state in the story how there are broad guidelines that apply across the U.S. 3. Her second year was ok. She still got it and really owned it. Classical Conversations can be more expensive than other homeschool options. I find most people who write articles like this, are very skilled at being hyper-critical, but very poor at being gracious. Thanks for all your work. I read a blog posted here last week [https://www.stealingfaith.com/2019/07/01/riding-fences/ ] and I completely agree with her sentiment that most of us do not realize the millions being made in our communities because we see nothing close to it. Officials at CC headquarters near Raleigh, N.C. became aware of these e-mails. The majority of CC campuses meet at churches. We should be humble enough to address concerns and make things right. (sorry, rabbit trail there). After all, pursuing happiness is really only valid if your definition of happiness agrees with the one outlined by the government. When the corporation wont listen to people who are among its own devoted licensees, things like this become the next best solution. 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