But you know, there may well be someone in this world that could say the same about any one of us. I'm not saying the 'Linda kites in Charlie speak' didn't happen, just that I don't believe that had anything to do with Susan recanting. I think goofy's comments about 'being at war' and 'casualties of war' are interesting. Did both sides not do that quite a lot though ? He is right, the question is not compound. She was granted full immunity from prosecution in exchange for 18 days of testimony. And so on. No one knows why. "We'd got the indictments. Pat never admitted to it though it was in her thought process, just not as the specific reason for being at Cielo. But they also shine a light on the crimes themselves. The LicenseThe license is a bit of a red herring. This might have been tried as a felony murder case like Van Houten III. It's always the Charlie supporters who make those statements and spread those stories about other motivesDuring one of her parole hearings, Pat did make a statement about "the two women in the house" which some have picked up and conflated with the "Sharon wasn't supposed to be there" red herring. )I don't see her as having a personality disorder, just a consistently lawless mindset, which doesn't invalidate her ability or sometime willingness to do what is right. I agree with your comment about multiple angles. Her new family, though, was already falling apart. :)I'm putting myself in time out for awhile lolHave a great weekend. I do not think that Charles Manson masterminded or ordered the Tate-LaBianca murders. It is usually something unrelated to what they are being asked like Krenwinkels Sharon wasnt supposed to be there comment I read about somewhere. How did Linda's teachers report on her behavior? I gotta say I lean to the Saint here. There is some fiddling and fuddling around the issue, all three men clarify that it was to be so but none of them ever push Susan or Leslie on it because the 2nd death squad didn't actually do anything. are with us in spirit if not in direct alliance. Reading the transcript, sometimes one has to go over his words two or three times and even then they don't line up. Manson Mythos saidHere is a fact: Krenwinkel never said the motive was Helter SkelterShe definitely believed in it though. That is just an elementary interpretation that most will have.But now, nearly fifty years later, allot of folk want to cut the girls a bit of slack - primarily because they all seem(ed) to have repented and become what most would call "nice people".But you don't find many, if any, willing to cut the two Charles any slack. She droved straight to New Mexico, where her husband was living with another woman. I also don't think it let's Manson 'off the hook'.Then again if Van Houten really wanted to cut holes in her shirt for her elf wings maybe a bottomless pit with a secret magical realm, living there for 100 years and growing to 144,000 souls was part of it. But when I compare the before with the after in Jay's death, for me there's no comparison.The question is why would Atkins leave Sharon, alive and alone, in the house to take this little stroll?Going to get a knife from Linda, struggling with Frykowski towards the front door, shouting to Tex for helpThere is no one inside. I embarrass myself when I insult anyone let along groups of people. There is no reason why it would be rejected when she went to see Bobby Beausoleil. ;) Their are people who will help and motivate you if you seek them just as there are people who will be happy to drag you down if you let them. She witnessed Charles "Tex" Watson shoot and kill Steven Parent as he was trying to exit the property. As you pointed out, different people respond so very differently to similar situations.The real Losers in the entire saga are the victims and their familiesI don't know. She later remarried and had a daughter; however, the marriage was not stable again. The getaway driver that Tex laid into for starting the car, whom he didn't let drive.Linda doesn't sound so willing, really. Maybe around the middle of the night. But if anyone has known for the last 47 years, they ain't been talking. I have read the trial transcripts, I know that site. On the following day, Linda Kasabian once again drove a carload of killers around Los Angeles, finally dropping off Tex, Katie, and Leslie at the Labianca residence. Remember part of your goal is to get the jury to see her as at least as vile as your client. Bugliosi did say that he had planned to question Susan later so who knows, it may have come up. Why any of them were picked isn't really relevant is it ? In his testimony Clem part corroborated Linda's account and Susan part did to both Richard Caballero and the Grand jury and then later when she was writing her books.and yet, when one looks at where that apartment was, it seems like another kill two birds with one stone job. I don't care if it's ten seconds, ten minutes or an hour. She got lucky Atkins folded, leaving her the only game in town and she skatedAs human beings, we have a most wonderful ability to react and make life changing moves/decisions at the drop of a hat.However, Bugliosi did say that Linda wanted to testify for the prosecution even when they still had Atkins but he got the feeling that Fleischman wanted some kind of deal. But what happened before and after that. Like how about BILL Clinton. Are any of you people aware of the history of Jehanna D'arcAKA Jone of Arc?Delusionalmaybe, but it would be the equivalent of Lesley Van Houten taking her knife and not killing innocent soft targets, but storming the LAPD for her beliefs. In 1969, the 20 year old Linda Kasabian met Charles Manson at the ranch and immediately fell under his spell. Apprently asking why was out of line and a sin. That's because sometimes, my thoughts on part of something that someone has said aren't formulated at the moment that I'm answering but other things that have been said have sparked off my train of thought or brought up an answer or a question.Other times, I'll need to do a bit of research so an answer won't be forthcoming straight away.Other times, just in general thought, I might have a sudden insight on something someone has said because I've been thinking about it; but that might be days later.I hope that's what you mean. She chose to be the way she wasBut not in a vacuum. That's what I mean by not telling the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Who amongst us can judge? Mind you, what she told Marvin Part was nuclear ! They were both into really wild shit long before meeting Charlie. What she said about Leslie was dynamite. Dreath saidDo I give weight to what anyone says after they were convicted: Not much. It certainly wasn't even a consideration when she gives her own point of view on why she recanted.All 5 Tate/LaBianca killers, when apart from Charlie told others he'd orchestrated the murders. These savage murders were not committed to effectuate a robbery. About Nadar.You are missing the point, Grim. I get why people get pissy over Deb Tate and Bugs. 'Best at the backhand slash' might not have sold well to the jury. Perhaps he even was trying to remind her about the importance of midnight, we'll never know. She was the key witness in District Attorney Vincent Bugliosi's prosecution of Manson and his followers for the Tate-LaBianca murders. IF I was one of the defense attorneys, I would have asked Linda and most other Prosecution witnesses:1) I'm a little confused and maybe you can help us ALL understand this Helter Skelter business a little better. For example where Manson Mythos said:while he [Charlie] is no angel, I don't think he is all bad.So he does have redeeming qualities and a good side as well I agree with him there. Manson Blog Proves that Tenerelli Was Not a Gypsy Joker! Dreath saidI think there is a tendency to look at Kasabian's involvement through the lens provided by what we know (or believe or have been told to believe ) from where we sit todayThere's a lot of truth in that. Matt saidAmazing that the defense lawyers never bothered to check on that tidbit during the months and months duration of the trialDuring the trial, she was asked a number of times about her licence. After that it is Bugliosi, not Kasabian who is testifying. [And Bugliosi leads a reluctant Kasabian to the answer he wants. The "They had really bad backgrounds and nowhere else to turn" sympathy is appropriate in cases like Diane Lake and Ruth. very young, and not absent- but actually encouraging and contributing to the delinquency of their kids type of parents.But not Linda. So to me even if there is more to the story- the actual motive = the actual reason they went over and killed. So I suspect that IF the TATE / LaBianca massacre took place today, they would be filling the ambulances with cops who got nauseated and pass-out. More languages But, again, all good. [Kanarek realizes something is wrong but whiffs by making too many objections and making them in the wrong order. The Vietnam WAR and those that "served" and those that didn't is NOW becoming a subject of contention. Eventually, she. Linda Darlene Kasabian was born on June 21, 1949. There are several occasions where he brings out testimony he doesn't need for a conviction just to make her look good. Linda, who was found, possessing methamphetamine, avoided a jail sentence by attending drug-counseling classes. When Patti Tate asks Good why her sister had to die. My usage of it is very much in the biblical sense. However, problems between the young couple led Linda and Tanya back to New Hampshire. She said on that tape she wasn't afraid of getting busted because what she did was right and had to be done. That said there are occasions too numerous to count in the Tate-LaBianca trial where he 'leads' his key witness to the answer he wants (and gets away with it). Grim, Ok, but quoting Bugliosi is sort of like quoting one of us. Besides the motives of Manson's passion for violent death and his extreme anti-establishment state of mind, the evidence in this trial will show that there was a further motive for these murders." By his closing argument, he calls it the main and principle one ! Hearing screams, she ran towards the house and witnessed the killing of Wojciech Frykowski by Watson. AND because Bugliosi, a judicial genius, says those phrases equal an attempt to ignite a Black and White race WAR, we got a HUGE problematic controversy.UNLESS Helter Skelter can make you more money than the word "robbery." The family often had financial difficulties because of her father's low income. Neither Susan nor Linda were major league contributors to HS in the grand scheme of things.I guess we'll never know, but there are many people wondering how different things would have been had Pat never daubed "Healter Skelter" on the LaBianca's fridge.There are several occasions where he brings out testimony he doesn't need for a conviction just to make her look goodThere are more than several occasions when Kanarek brings out testimony he doesn't really need just to make her look bad. No big deal. I ended up running away at 18 and skipped the country. Now taken into considering the location this apparently took place. (Four) - $1 bills; serial #L713312991, #FS70065680, #G10854391G, #R74795353B.She didn't- from the Police Property Report (from the coroner)- the wallet is there, his glasses are not (sorry, couldn't resist). Its been awhile but I think I recall she said she took his wallet. And then I said, "People are coming." That makes Ms. Kasabian (as the key witness) a bit of pet project of mine. We believe there to be more than one motive. But this has always been subject to alteration, progression, sideways steps, change, being unwise, you know, life. Bob Kasabian wanted to go and storm the castle gates to retrieve Tonya but that would have resulted in danger for all 3 Kasabians. But Linda was left to her own devices and ended up pretty much where she had been heading long before July 4th, '69. Low level of intelligence: Blanket judging others as having a low level of intelligence because they don't agree with you on your low intellect, racist ideas.Manson Mythos, Obama is:Community organizerAttorneyConstitutional law professorState SenatorUS SenatorPOTUSNobel LaureateManson Mythos:Angry racist moron. Two people had spread that around long before Linda herself was even arrested. Kasabian was a 20-year-old hippy with a 16-month daughter in July 1969 when she met members of Manson's Family and was asked to join their commune at a dilapidated ranch known as Spahn's. He said something to the effect that Charlie had a very strong case and that there was pretty much no evidence against him. 2 facts will always remain, namely that Tonya was safe and returned safely and that Linda set out out to retrieve her and did so.even in the worst of circumstances- people can make their own fate / But not Linda. Do I give weight to what anyone says after they were convicted: Not much. Linda Kasabian falls prey to the hypnotic charms of Charles Manson and his self-proclaimed "family" during the drug-fueled summer of 1969. And what of the guy that prosecuted them ? Sanctimonious, elitist narcissist is more like it. You don't agree. What appeared peaceful at first to Linda Kasabian turned violent. One or the otherA young Sprite George Stimson and Sandy sit inches away from Bugs and Patti Tate and they all have a pretty good go at it as far as motive and other things :). Early Life If I point all these out here I won't have things to post in the future ;-). After the trials, Linda escaped the public eye by going back to New Hampshire. "Also as stated somewhere earlier, it didn't need some bogus story about a Lebanese actor to cover any Linda murder mania, not when 2 of the murderers had previously told police and other witnesses that she hadn't killed anyone.Given that no one was charged with even the attempted murder of or conspiracy to murder Saladin Nader, one might have to conclude you're chucking exhibits from that box of red herrings again Vincent Bugliosi said the only reason Linda went along on those two nights, is because she was the only one out of the group with a valid driver's license. She chose to be the way she wasAround the age of 14, I chose to be the way I am and have been doing so ever since. Yeah, all true.There again, some of us have brothers, sisters, Dads, Mums, cousins, close friends etc that are in that vein and we still love them just the same and haven't yet abandoned them, though it may have been touch and go sometimes.You have a different sort of connection to your family and close friends than you do to a stranger who you have never met I hope.Had my brother lived a life like Lindas- maybe I feel some obligation to go above and beyond to feel something he doesn't deserve. Manson's Lost Girls: Directed by Leslie Libman.