Jim in Idaho #7914589 07/19/13. We offer rifle ammo in a number of calibers including 223 REMINGTON, 30 CARBINE, 300 WIN MAG, 307 WIN, 308 WIN, 375 WINCHESTER, 5.45 X 39MM, 7X64MM and more. It can be found, and reloading it should not be a problem. An experimental Thompson submachine gun was also made to fire .351 SL in 1919 but was never produced commercially. Please click the above links to take a look at all of the .30 M1 Carbine and .30-30 Winchester ammo we have in stock and ready to ship, and let us know any parting thoughts in the comment section below. Right now, I think that the Browning BLR lever-action rifle is the only production gun left on the market in .358 Win. Plainfield Machine Corp. made a .30 caliber pistol from 1964 to 1983 named the "Enforcer". Mag. Hopefully the forearm wood isn't splintered up. By and large, we shooters seem to gravitate to the middle of the road; to bland, yet predictable, mediocrity. Sure a .351 would have been better, but weight savings was a HUGE priority for the design of the M1 Carbine. (For context, Federals highest-BC 6.5 Creedmoor clocks in at .607.). I have used this cartridge on moose with excellent results. Midway USA, for example, which is among the best at keeping ammo in stock, reports 35 varieties of .30-30 while only 15 offerings of .350 Legend. Remington currently lists a Model 7 rifle with a 20-inch barrel; todays version of the 600 in .350 Rem. . With a 200-grain bullet the .35 Whelen actually shoots a bit flatter than the .30-06 Sprg. Save your pennies and hold out for the M1 Carbinethen save your pennies and start stocking away ammo and magazines. while finding .30 carbine ammo can be a challenge at times, finding adequate quantities of .351 SL would seem an impossible task. The .308 Win. He killed a large 4x4 buck that day. plowed fresh ground. Moderate, safe, bland and predictable. Please email us if you have questions about any of our product listings. ", Apostolic Exhortation On The Family, Pope John Paul II. WINCHESTER 30-30 M#94. Fusion Ammo has a 200-grain with a muzzle velocity of 2800 f.p.s. Note: some of the links below are affiliate links. like a .223 and just about anything else. The same probably goes for the AR-15 when they think of a semi auto police patrol rifle. Seller: cma959. Dubbed by Winchester as the "fastest straight-walled hunting cartridge in the world," the 350 Legend certainly seems to be designed to fill a particular role in those states which limit big-game hunters to straight-walled rifle cartridges. It puts down Whitetail deer and wild hogs quite nicely. With a 10 mph crosswind, the bullet shifts 7.4 inches and 17.8 inches at those distances, respectively. Make sure you subscribe toThe Big Game Hunting Podcastand follow The Big Game Hunting Blog onFacebook,Instagram,Twitter, andYouTube. The .356 Win. The trouble is, they didnt sell. But they are so few in number that no general conclusion can be drawn from them. Mag. The ammunition hung on a while longer, but eventually Big Green abandoned her babies and stopped making both cartridges. I too have an M1, and also two 1907's - both from the first year of production. Our website lists special deals on 9mm Ammo, 10mm Ammo, 45-70 Ammo, 6.5 Creedmoor ammo, 300 Blackout Ammo, 10mm Ammo, 5.56 Ammo, Underwood Ammo, Buffalo Bore Ammo and more special deals on bulk ammo. And with Winchester, Ruger, Mossberg and other companies making bolt action rifle in 350 Legend and 450 Bushmaster, maybe they could make a run of rifles in 351 WSL and 401 WSL too., with 5 and 10 round magazines. . So a .30 M1 Carbine round exits the barrel with kinetic energy equal to the energy required for linear vertical displacement of 960 pounds through a one foot distance, while a .30-30 Winchester round exiting the barrel has energy equal to the amount required to displace 1890 pounds over the same one foot distance. As of this writing, five of Midways .350 Legend options are in stock while the company reports having zero .30-30 cartridges available. the Marlin 336 seems to have a beefier action though and is more easily scoped than the earlier Winchesters. Would certainly make things easier, from a tooling standpoint. and .32 Rem. has been offered in just about every rifle action type ever conceived and a few handguns. Re: Question for the experts: M1 Carbine vs. Winchester .351. OVERALL LENGTH 38? Hornady Critical Defense: 1990 fps. is on the threatened list, this one is on a path to extinction. Please enable javascript before you are allowed to see this page. Most commercially available loads for the .351 SL launched a 180 grain .351 caliber bullet at between 1,850 and 1,925 fps from a 20-inch barrel, yielding identical muzzle energy to the .30-30 when fired from a 20-inch barrel (rather than a manufacturer's long test barrel). Both clock in around 9 foot-pounds of energy, about half as much as a .308 Winchester. Youre also more likely to find a rifle in .30-30, especially in the used market. With six rounds on tap, it makes a good hog-hunting gun as long as heavy shoulder bone is avoided. The .30 Carbine's relatively straight case and round nose bullet have misled some to believe it was designed for . Winchester only sold about 29,000 Model 1905 rifles from 1905 to 1923. Its spawn, the .351 Winchester Self Loader, fared a little better, but it was never in danger of greatness. Another comparison is a .357 Magnum cartridge fired from an 18" rifle barrel, which has a muzzle velocity range from about 1,7182,092ft/s (524638m/s) with energies at 7201,215ftlbf (9761,647J) for a 110gr (7.1g) bullet at the low end and a 125gr (8.1g) bullet on the high end.[11]. The .25 Rem., .30 Rem. PISTOL GRIP, SPLINTER FORE END, PISTOL GRIP, SPLINTER FORE END, DOUBLE TRIGGERS, EXTRACTOR. *I have mentioned before that it is in fact theItalians who claimed the prize of first intermediate caliber to be adopted as standard issue, with their long but still very much intermediate 7.35x51mm round. Shortly before World War II, the U.S. Army started a "light rifle" project to provide support personnel and rear area units a weapon with more firepower and accuracy than the standard issue M1911A1 .45 ACP handgun and half the weight of the standard issue M1 Garand .30-06 rifle or the .45 ACP Thompson submachine gun. Back in 1983 Winchester introduced the .356 Win. Perhaps thats why it has survived. SMOOTH PATINA METAL WITH GOOD WOOD AND A NICE BORE. Generally speaking, the higher the muzzle energy, the higher the stopping power. The weapon was originally issued with a 15-round detachable magazine. Folks tend to duck when they hear the slide action put into play!! all were more powerful-and may have been excellent hunting cartridges-but they are gone; rejected by the shooting public and banished to the junk heap of obsolescence. The Remington Model 673 Guide Rifle was chambered in .350 Rem. In 1965 Remington took it to the next level with the introduction of the Model 600 Magnum Carbine. 80% BLUE. I couldn't even begin to think of a reason to use such a bastard case/bullet size as the 351. After two years of development, Winchester did beat Remington to market with the Winchester Model 1905 rifle. were to go head to head with the .25-35 Win.,. Access the newest seasons of MeatEater, save content, and join in discussions with the Crew and others in the MeatEater community. Mossberg .22 LR models 340 340A 340B 340M 342 342K 344 344K 346K 346B 350 350K 351 352 352K 353 Rifl Winchester mod. Versatility refers to the range of animals that could be realistically harvested with a cartridge. The 10mm Auto semi auto pistols is being used to hunt deer and wild hogs, and it equals the 35 WSL ballistics. Probably well over half of the production for the last ten years went to police organizations in the United States. Good information on these rifles. The elder statesman of the deer woods, the .30-30 Win. Lots of people seem to enjoy beating their head against a wall. Weight-wise, the .30 Carbine is also a bit of a disappointment, clocking in at 12.70 grams per round of M2 .30 Carbine Ball ammunition, heavierthan the far more capable 5.5645. The .30 Carbine uses a lighter bullet (110 grain versus 165 grain) and improved powder. Nathaniel is a history enthusiast and firearms hobbyist whose primary interest lies in military small arms technological developments beginning with the smokeless powder era. In fact, as Speckin explains, the whole series of Winchester Self-Loaders were designed as smokeless semiautomatic analogs for the saddle carbine role. In 1966 there was a gold miner that was hunting with Dad and I. For a while Savage chambered it in the Model 99, and I am still looking for one I can afford. A blowback action in the most basic autoloading action. was included in that party is a mystery, as it had no Winchester counterpart. One would think the 32WSL, 35 WSL, 351 WSL and 401 WSL would still be in use today. It is a light rifle round[2][3][4][5] designed to be fired from the M1 carbine's 18-inch (458mm) barrel. In 1944, Smith & Wesson developed a hand-ejector revolver to fire .30 Carbine. Heres how the cartridges compare, pricewise. Federal loads the 225-grain Trophy Bonded Bear Claw bullet with a muzzle velocity of 2600 f.p.s. The .350 wins that power matchup, but this 170-grain .30-30 option offers 1,827 foot-pounds of energy at the muzzle while this heavier, 180-grain .350 Legend only produces 1,762 ft.-lbs. This is a bolt action rifle with a 5round internal magazine and sports a 22 blued steel barrel with visible rif WINCHESTER 1873 MUSKET 44-40 30. Please try a new zip code and search again. Sell your 351 winchester for FREE today on GunsAmerica! Foundry Outdoors is your trusted home for buying archery, camping, fishing, hunting, shooting sports, and outdoor gear online. All we do know for sure is that it was either Howe or Whelen, or both, who necked the .30-06 Sprg. The US .30 cal M1 Carbine is one of the most important developments in the personal defense weapon story, being one of the very first* intermediate calibers to be adopted as standard issue by a nation, and arguablythe first purpose-designed PDW caliber in history. Sure, we experiment a bit with other bore sizes, but in the end it always comes back to the .30 caliber. During that time, Winchester produced over 49,000 rifles, including over 8,000 produced during World War I and World War II. Ballistics Why cant we love the .35? Miner had a heavy octagon barrel model 94 with it's barrel shorten to carbine length. But in 2003 Remington decided to attempt a resurrection. The .350 Legend goes for $1.15 to $2.30/round and the .30-30 Winchester anywhere from $1.15 to $4.70/round. The M1 carbine was issued to infantry officers; machine gun, artillery and tank crews; paratroopers; and other line-of-communications personnel in lieu of the larger, heavier M1 Garand. 26" barrels with F A near flawless vintage Voere Nato Imperial control round feed Mauser bolt action made in Austria. The Taurus Raging Thirty and AMT AutoMag III were also offered in .30 Carbine.[10]. Any series covering this topic would be incomplete without a look at the round, however! [6] But for the handloader who has taken the time to replace the recoil spring and buffer in the Winchester Model 1907, the .351 SL can be loaded to its original velocities. Using basically the same action, they introduced the Winchester Model 1910 semi-automatic rifle along with the .401 Winchester Self Loading (.401WSL) in the spring of 1910. Neither Winchester cartridge was truly suitable for anything larger than small deer, and that might have been pushing it. At 300 yards, it has 19 percent more energy than the .300 Win. We are also beginning to deliver those bullets as components. We have a variety of deals on Rifle Ammo, Handgun Ammo, Shotgun Ammo & Rimfire Ammo, as well as ammo for target practice, plinking, hunting, or shooting competitions. I believe it never will. I had Clay at prophet river in Alberta bring in 22 ;auto ammo for my 1903 22sl, they work good and are a run that Aquila runs once a year I believe, I ended up buying at least 800 or more rounds. in its NoslerCustom line with a 225-grain Partition bullet at 2550 f.p.s. The 351 WSL looks like a somewhat larger version of the 30 Carbine round, although the 351 is more powerful. Accuracy was always regarded as fair at best from Model 07 carbines. The .351 Winchester fired the same 180 grain bullet as the .35 SL, but at a considerably higher velocity of 1,850 feet per second (1,368 ft-lbs of muzzle energy). from my E.R. Don't own one, shot one quite a lot back in the day when a kinsman had one. The .30-30 offers more power with certain loads, better long-range performance, and soft recoil. Buy a 351 winchester online. Mag. The 357 Magnum fired a 158 gr SP at 1240 fps. In 1958, the short-lived J. Kimball Arms Co. produced a .30 Carbine caliber pistol that closely resembled a slightly scaled-up High Standard Field King .22 target pistol. Reply. These are a fun gun to have , shoot and collect. Its often thought that if they had it would have gained popularity over the .338 Win. I'd go with the carbine if you plan to shoot it much. was simply a .308 Win. All Types (1000+) There are photos of hunters taking a polar bear with a 357 Mag revolver! "Winchester Model 07 Self-Loading .351 Caliber: Its Past and Its Future with Modern Brass, Bullets and Powders" (2011) Speckin, Leonard pp 68-70, "Winchester Model 07 Self-Loading .351 Caliber: Its Past and Its Future with Modern Brass, Bullets and Powders" (2011) Speckin, Leonard pp 88-96, ".351 Winchester Self-Loading (.351 WSL, .351 SL)", https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=.351_Winchester_Self-Loading&oldid=1149960777, This page was last edited on 15 April 2023, at 14:17. Several manufacturers submitted proposals, and Winchester's little "United States Carbine, Caliber .30, M1," or, more simply, the M1 carbine, was the winning design. Still, I hope its clear how closely these cartridges stack up. A 10 mph crosswind will move the bullet 8.9 inches and 21.6 inches at those distances. Even though Winchester developed a round suitable for straight blowback actions, the rifle they eventually submitted designed by William Roemer and Fred Humeston, and based on the work done by convict David Marshall Williams was a gas-operated, locked breech design. This .350 Legend from Federal, for example, can launch a 160-grain bullet about 2,300 feet-per-second while this .30-30 fires a 150-grain bullet about the same speed. Neither cartridge produces stiff recoil. In firearms with a blowback action like the Model 1903, the breech is not locked and depends on a balance between the cartridge pressure characteristics, the heavy breechblock, and a powerful recoil spring for reliable functioning. The .350 Legend is popular enough to justify continued production but not popular enough that the shelves are bare. Remington Green/Yellow: 1983 fps. Mag. I wonder if some army brass had a 32-20 lever action rifle and thought that a semi auto rifle in 30 caliber would be good for combat? The Winchester 351 self-loading rifle is. Winchester BismuthReview: Your Complete Guide, Best Hunting Rifle Slings Ultimate Guide [2023], 25-06 vs 30-06 Springfield Review & Comparison, 6.5 Grendel vs 300 Blackout Review & Comparison, 11 Reasons The Leupold VX-6HD Is An Outstanding Hunting Scope, 450 Bushmaster vs 45-70 Review & Comparison, 28 Nosler vs 300 Win Mag Review & Comparison, Best 22 Hornet Ammo For Hunting Coyotes, Bobcats, & Other Varmints, 15 Best African Hunting Books For When Youre Dreaming Of Being On Safari[2023], Best 350 Legend Ammo For Hunting Deer, Hogs, Bear, & Other Game, Best 6.8 Western Rifles for Hunting Ultimate Guide [2023]. . As illustrated in the chart, .30 M1 Carbine rounds - on average - achieve a velocity of about 1990 feet per second (fps) while .30-30 Winchester rounds travel at a velocity of 2370 fps. This 180-grain load from Federal drops 9.4 inches at 200 yards and 34.1 inches at 300 yards. This listing is for ONE Magazine. The .25 Rem., .30 Rem. What is the going price of an original box of 351 ammo. is still not burning up the sales records, so maybe ahead of its time is the wrong description. from a 20-inch barrel. The 35 WSL fired a 180 gr SP at 1390 fps, this duplicated the 38-40 ballistics. These cartridges stack up so closely from a ballistics standpoint that neither can claim to hit harder than the other. Winchester and Hornady both offer 200-grain loads at 2475 f.p.s. The performance of cartridges paled in comparison to the .32 Remington (170gr bullet at 2,180fps for 1,794 ft-lbs of energy) and .35 Remington (200gr bullet at 2,080fps for 1,922ft-lbs of energy) cartridges Remington introduced with their new autoloading rifle, the Remington Model 8. Winchester - Model 70, Target Model, .243 Winchester, 26" barrel. After reading about the Winchester self loaders, I decided to look online to get more information and see what I could find out, It seems like most writers complain about the Winchester self loaders action, but this was a new product. Plainfield Machine produced M1 carbines from 1960 to 1977, when they were bought out by Iver Johnson Corp, who has manufactured them at least until a 50th anniversary model in 1993. Furthermore, the muzzle energy of a .30 M1 Carbine round averages out to 960 ft-lb, while a .30-30 Winchester round averages out to about 1890 ft-lb. WITH BAYONET. WINCHESTER 1907 351. I read somewhere that Olympic Arms made a bunch of 30 carbine uppers for Isreal back in the 90s. That seems to happen a bunch to the rifles that had an active life! spent to get the military issue version of the carbine will be money well spent. From the Green Goblin (a bolt-action rifle I built on a Remington action), both will produce groups that are sub-minute-of-angle. Each round was a straight-walled, semi-rimmed cartridge firing a round-nosed bullet at modest pressure, just like the .30 Carbine. was designed for the American market, but sadly no American riflemaker ever chambered the cartridge in a cataloged gun. Sadly, I cant find a single major gunmaker chambering this cartridge today. It would cost into the 800dollar range just to rebuild one. All that being said, if one were interested in hunting with a very unique rifle that you would be very unlikely to encounter in the woods in the hands of another hunter, the Winchester Model 1907 and Model 1910 autoloaders in .351 Winchester or .401 Winchester would be a great choice. But when Winchester chambered the .358 the following year in its unique lever-action, the Model 88, it became a really interesting cartridge. The following ammunition cartridge ballistics information and chart can be used to approximately compare .30 M1 Carbine vs .30-30 Winchester ammo rounds. Been looking for a deal on a nice M1 Carbine these last few months in preparing for the eventual Zombie apocalypse. Yeah. you can refer to it as "self loading" instead of semi auto and still have that "special feeling". One of the oldest and most popular cartridges of all time, the .30-30 Winchester, was released in 1895 and has been bringing down all manner of game ever since. The 30 Carbine was necked down to accept a 0.308" diameter, 110-grain full metal jacket (FMJ) bullet. were to go head to head with the .25-35 Win., .30-30 Win. That is to say, .30 M1 Carbine bullets travel 2.3 times the speed of a 737 airplane at cruising speed, while .30-30 Winchester bullets travel 2.7 times that same speed. Due to its blowback action, the rifle kicks like a mule. Winchester Model 74 semi auto .22 short. From a four-inch (102mm) barrel, it launched the standard GI ball projectile at 1,277ft/s (389m/s), producing an average group of 4.18 inches (106mm) at 25 yards (23m); the military decided not to adopt the revolver. If the .35 Rem. and .32 Rem. The .358 Win. into the deer woods, and I pine for what could have been. While similar to the M1 carbine, it lacked the stock, thereby making it a handgun. Mag. The company has chambered several rifles in the cartridge including models in bolt-action, pump-action and semi-automatic. Winchester 351 Self-Loading: Truly Amazing! Comments have to be approved before showing up, 2023 Foundry Outdoors - All Rights Reserved, Product successfully added to your Shopping Cart, 223 WSSM Winchester Super Short Magnum Ammo, 243 WSSM Winchester Super Short Magnum Ammo, 25 WSSM Winchester Super Short Magnum Ammo, 300 RSAUM Remington Short Action Ultra Magnum Ammo, 7mm RSAUM Remington Short Action Ultra Magnum Ammo, .30 M1 Carbine vs .30-30 Winchester Ammo Comparison - Ballistics Info & Chart. If you had to pick the sexiest cartridges of the last decade, youd run through quite a few before you hit the .270 Winchester or .243 Winchester. Therefore, the M1 carbine is significantly less powerful than the M1 Garand. Apr 21, 2013. appearance wise, i am partial to the Winchester M94. But unfortunately, only rifles made for these cartridges was Winchester, no one else chambered them, how come? Winchester offered .351 WSL factory loads loaded with 180-grain jacketed soft point round nose bullets. For more detailed ballistics information please refer to the exact round in question or contact the manufacturer for the pertinent information. [2], While a few gun writers in the 1960s criticized the .351 SL for being inadequate as a deer hunting round, and the round's power has sometimes been compared to a .357 Magnum carbine load, the .351 SL's killing power falls somewhere between the .30-30 Winchester and the .35 Remington. Why the public abandoned it so quickly is a mystery to me. We determine a cartridges shootability by considering its cost, availability, and recoil energy. Paul explains the differences between the Winchester and Marlin .30-30 lever action rifles.Paul's Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/user?u=5769301 This video . This means I will earn a small commission (at no extra cost to you) if you make a purchase. [6] (The .30 Carbine's relatively straight case and round nose bullet have misled some to believe it was designed for use in pistols.) Ruger briefly chambered the M77 rifle in .35 Whelen. I read back in the 1980s a couple of gunsmith were doing conversation of 30 Carbine rifles to 45 Win. Its not a long-range powerhouse by any means, but it can be loaded with more aerodynamic .30-caliber bullets that offer higher ballistic coefficients (BC).
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